✅ Texturing Contest #31 - POLL

[Archian]

In that situation STV would be the optimal voting system but probably a tad too complex. I just think perhaps there should be a formula for the number of votes based on the number of entries. For example N = E/3 rounded where N is number of votes and E is number of Entries, so <4 entries, 1 vote, 5 - 7 entries 2 votes, 8 - 10 entries 3 votes. Just an example, of course it is a grey area in terms of how many votes should be given and there's probably no perfect answer.

We usually go with 3 because there are 1st, 2nd and 3rd place awards. So it made sense to give the community the power to vote for their own top 3.

 

[Footman16]

We usually go with 3 because there are 1st, 2nd and 3rd place awards. So it made sense to give the community the power to vote for their own top 3.

Ah... well that makes sense

 

[deepstrasz]

Sorry, but I made it clear that I wish to exit the contest. No, I wouldn’t be interested in judging the contest and no I wouldn’t remain if judges would to be added. I think the poll results shouldn’t have been visible during the voting phase, but also it was partially my mistake to suggest a contest could be decided by public poll because I wrongly evaluated the capability of the average voter to deliver proper score.

Do not be more discouraged by democracy than you should. It has its limits. We have to live with that until we progress to better forms of human organization.

Thank you for sharing your opinion on this. Complete anonymity for contest entries, along with hiding the number of votes, can indeed promote fairness and prevent any bias based on author popularity. However, I see some concerns:

Yes. If anything we need full transparency, IMO.

In that situation STV would be the optimal voting system but probably a tad too complex. I just think perhaps there should be a formula for the number of votes based on the number of entries. For example N = E/3 rounded where N is number of votes and E is number of Entries, so <4 entries, 1 vote, 5 - 7 entries 2 votes, 8 - 10 entries 3 votes. Just an example, of course it is a grey area in terms of how many votes should be given and there's probably no perfect answer.

Those of you who are better at maths could definitely figure a quasi fast and fair means to calculate.
Me being a humanist peasant, I can just suggest contestant votes weigh more and or (which is unnecessarily complicated) voter choices weigh more if they have at least 1/few skins uploaded and/or have been on the site for quite a while and they are known to be credible.

Altough, @frostwhisper and myself are willing to act as a judge. Problem is, however, we already participated in the poll.

Ay caramba!
One fix could be for someone like @General Frank to judge instead more on the technicalities of how the texture fits on the model, wrapping and whatever you call those stuffs. That way the contest could have some balance between voters and the judge. If you're tad uncomfortable with the judge being a modeller, mainly or wholly, the judge percentage could be reduced.

 

[General Frank]

Do not be more discouraged by democracy than you should. It has its limits. We have to live with that until we progress to better forms of human organization.

Yes. If anything we need full transparency, IMO.

Those of you who are better at maths could definitely figure a quasi fast and fair means to calculate.
Me being a humanist peasant, I can just suggest contestant votes weigh more and or (which is unnecessarily complicated) voter choices weigh more if they have at least 1/few skins uploaded and/or have been on the site for quite a while and they are known to be credible.

Ay caramba!
One fix could be for someone like @General Frank to judge instead more on the technicalities of how the texture fits on the model, wrapping and whatever you call those stuffs. That way the contest could have some balance between voters and the judge. If you're tad uncomfortable with the judge being a modeller, mainly or wholly, the judge percentage could be reduced.

Sorry, I don't have time.

 

[Murlocologist]

In what sense? Without giving your own feedback/opinions on the other entries I'm not sure what you mean by this? Different people have different judging criteria. Do I disagree with how the votes are turning out? Of course because I want to win lol so ideally I'd have all the votes and be coming first by a landslide do I still understand that this is a vote and people will vote for the entries they believe are best which might differ from my own opinion? Also of course, and so I have no issue with where I will end up in the final tally.

Well, aren’t you a texture reviewer and yet your conclusion is that there is no difference in quality between entries, it just the taste? Sort out entries with some objectivity and ask yourself a question, which of the entries would be given badge of recommended and which would be given high quality. Also judging criteria is literally written in the opening post of the contest and in this poll.

 

[Shido]

But no one signed up, unfortunately.

Sh.... let the word sink down for a minute.

You know sir, I have twice experience as a loser in contests already so when I got 3rd place in a merch contest, it is worth popping those coke and celebrate an achievement because i'm being a dark horse.

Before all this drama, before this contest, before the man dug it back up. There was the shovel itself, there was me, @Shido

I dug it back up because look at how it left in Contest Discussion for 2 freaking years. What happen in the middle of 2 years you may asked? Skin Section was hard carried by me the whole year gap, i'm not the only one driving in section all the time but it's literally i was fulfilled to do that because i still have passion. I still prefer SD environment hence I still skin to this day.

In that same 2 years gap, there wouldn't be any ~Nightmare or A.R or even Doc bother to look at it. Because no one wake them up, you left with a desert that now just a sand castle for what i was cooking.

My life ask to be simplistic with how much I value what is surrounding me. So why the actual f are we fighting here? The point of texturing contest is best texture for sure but also your only way to get this section revive. Even I have to take health toll because of it, it's pathetic for us because we all want to win right? I think the real flaw was the award system itself, if you just 4th place below then you are nothing but a product of time and people will just move on with our lives. Those hanging award is starting to be a nothingburger, even the first place of modding contest throw it out of dumpster. Hell look at deepstrasz himself, how many bronzes that you have hide away?

It's ugly decision that shape us in modern day and I should have done more. I should have never been denied by Archian for being a judge, you can't keep on with old one because they will retire eventually. We should have train them to shape their standard so we can have successor for our roles. I dare to be one because I have lived long enough not to bother winning anyway. You can never an award but you can always get respects as being the main core of a contest.

That's depressing to look at, do I expect something in return. I sleep in cold ground waiting that I get the recognition i always want, filled with envies and shattered dreams. All of this, I could have done more and I was trying to voice a reason for them. From newcomers to old rusty peoples, you know I have been trying to satisfy both side even you know one of them is wrong.

Now with how the poll won't satisfy anyone, the only option you left IMO is forcing every voters explain why they vote them. This way we will know which one is being geniune, this decision will also come with a vote reset as well.

 

[Footman16]

Well, aren’t you a texture reviewer and yet your conclusion is that there is no difference in quality between entries, it just the taste?

I don't believe I said that and if I write a review of all the entries I will try to be objective but my assessment might still be different to someone else's. Of course some things can be objective but to deny there will always be subjective element seems a little silly no? What if you had one vote and 2 entries of "equal quality" hypothetically, which one would you vote for?

Not to mention stylistic choices. Look at 67chrome's stuff which we would both agree it is of a high quality and then look at CloudWolf's which I say is of an equally high quality, could we say one's skins are "better" than the other? Or do we accept there is a degree of preference involved once certain objective criteria have been assessed?

 

[Murlocologist]

I don't believe I said that and if I write a review of all the entries I will try to be objective but my assessment might still be different to someone else's. Of course some things can be objective but to deny there will always be subjective element seems a little silly no? What if you had one vote and 2 entries of "equal quality" hypothetically, which one would you vote for?

Not to mention stylistic choices. Look at 67chrome's stuff which we would both agree it is of a high quality and then look at CloudWolf's which I say is of an equally high quality, could we say one's skins are "better" than the other? Or do we accept there is a degree of preference involved once certain objective criteria have been assessed?

I think you are being a bit too philosophical on the subject, objective standards by which textures are reviewed are well known and in this case quite literally described in the first post.

 

[deepstrasz]

ell look at deepstrasz himself, how many bronzes that you have hide away?

"Hey there peasant, how goes your-"
"By the Pope!"

I mean no disrespect but I did not hide my music awards because they were 3rd place. I just don't see any use to have them fill the space under my avatar in posts now. Before it was because I could only choose a limited number to show rather than all as before. I'd even remove/disable my experience if possible.

Now with how the poll won't satisfy anyone, the only option you left IMO is forcing every voters explain why they vote them. This way we will know which one is being geniune, this decision will also come with a vote reset as well.

Yes. That would be part of the ongoing solution, to make it as with rating resources requiring a post as well. However, comments will mostly be like 10/10 awesome resource! IMO, you shouldn't expect laypeople to actually write with objectivity.

I think you are being a bit too philosophical on the subject, objective standards by which textures are reviewed are well known and in this case quite literally described in the first post.

Art is not mathematics. It has a background of it sure but overall it's feeling, emotion and expression, irrelevant of rationale.

 

[Footman16]

I think you are being a bit too philosophical on the subject, objective standards by which textures are reviewed are well known and in this case quite literally described in the first post.

Sure, then I can only recommend you write your own reviews of all the entries based on your objective criteria and post it here and people will either agree or disagree with your assessments. And they might take your objective rationales into account when they cast their votes.

EDIT: Personally, I consider you to be a really good texturer and contributor so I am keen to hear your thoughts on my entry as well as the others

 

[Murlocologist]

Art is not mathematics. It has a background of it sure but overall it's feeling, emotion and expression, irrelevant of rationale.

Don’t attempt to mystify. You do know this contest is about WC3 textures, right?

 

[deepstrasz]

Don’t attempt to mystify. You do know this contest is about WC3 textures, right?

The more we shouldn't have such an emotion filled discussion or rather argument over such a trivial thing, IMO.
I'm sorry you are so disappointed in this contest and that your anger lead you to the removal of your resource not only from the contest but from the site. Honestly, I think we should all just go for a walk and even drink something nice.

 

[Shido]

I like how we have whole discussion and the only one chillin is Vinz and A.R. Yeah, I just gotta unread the the poll and move on with my life xd.

 

[Shar Dundred]

It wouldn't be Hive Arena if there was no drama every contest, would it?

 

[Murlocologist]

The more we shouldn't have such an emotion filled discussion or rather argument over such a trivial thing, IMO.
I'm sorry you are so disappointed in this contest and that your anger lead you to the removal of your resource not only from the contest but from the site. Honestly, I think we should all just go for a walk and even drink something nice.

Being opinionated and outspoken about the subject doesn’t mean I’m angry. I’m not at all. I removed the texture because I felt it was the right thing to do. I exited the contest because I felt the trajectory of the poll is biased and unrealistic, I didn’t want to keep my entry subscribed to such environment, therefore I exited. The only drama I’m able to detect here is coming from those who have a problem with respecting my decision to exit the contest.

 

[Vinz]

I've stated above that we can change it so that people can't see the results until after they've voted, however, this also means people can't change their votes. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, as well as the other contestants. @A.R. @~Nightmare @Vinz @Footman16 @PrinceYaser @Shido

I have no opinion on this. I don't know if bandwagoning is a problem. I thought we knew what we were getting into with this contest. ¯\(ツ)/¯

Not seeing the voters even after the results, means the public cannot identify say possible multiaccounting schemes or some fishy voting, the matter only residing on the staff's shoulders to watch for.

+

Fair! Although you can see how that still might get people upset.

That's going to happen either way though.

Although, @frostwhisper and myself are willing to act as a judge. Problem is, however, we already participated in the poll.

Perhaps you could just not count your votes during score calculation?

if you just 4th place below then you are nothing but a product of time and people will just move on with our lives.

Speaking from experience, I can assure you; getting gold did not make my life happier. It's fun to be passionate sometimes, but I sure hope people aren't putting that much value into an online contest with no real stakes.

 

[Shar Dundred]

It's fun to be passionate sometimes, but I sure hope people aren't putting that much value into an online contest with no real stakes.

This.
This contest is for experience on Hive and an icon.
You can like it or not but it is not worth it getting worked up over.

 

[Archian]

NOTICE - Murlocologist have withdrawn his entry (Owl Warrior) from this contest. We are currently trying to remove the poll choice from the poll.
Everyone who voted for the Owl Warrior skin has been contacted in hopes that they will change their votes.

Perhaps you could just not count your votes during score calculation?

That could be an option, if the rest of the contestants agrees

 

[Footman16]

That could be an option, if the rest of the contestants agrees

I'm neutral on the matter, on the one hand I did see who you guys voted for. On the other I trust the two of you to judge from the criteria given fairly and as objectively as possible. Therefore I have no issue with it if the rest of the contestants agree.

 

[nchp1903]

Voting is of course gonna be flawed imo, unless everyone has the same objective knowledge on how a texture is made. But I guess we just have to experiment during each contest, switch things up every now and then, to see which one will work the most consistently at the end. So may I suggest a star-based voting system? Each voter will have to give a star rating to all entries from 1-5 stars, and if the voter is a known troll or a fresh account, they won't be able to vote.

Plus, there are effort, time, and emotion investment of each competitor that we can't gauge, which can cause them to react strongly to any sign of unfairness, which can't be blamed.

And I feel like as long as we're human, there will be very strong bias. Like, all of the entries are beautifully crafted and I struggled to pick which, but when I saw Vinz's entry, that's an instant vote from me.


Lastly, I'm out of the loop, so I want to ask if something of the same scale happened to -Grendel? I like his Undead models, and then suddenly, one day I checked his account, they're all gone.

 

[Shido]

"Okay who idea of letting frosty trolly and greyney eredey be a judge for texture when neither of 'em dip their hand with these. Don't get me start with Archie only HQ skin here because who else give you HQ because betsy ain't around that time yet. You haven't make anything for a decade now."

Alright serious talking, I have to give like quadrillion freaking ideas and all of them fall in deaf ears. Ever heard of award freaking upgrade, you know ... the Donor system? If being excellent in a contest is rewarding then so be the judge themselves. To give them a reason, just make a Judge Award instead. This would motivate professional and they would investing their subject.

Trust me if someone either 1 of 2 decide to be a judge, yeah I am ready to press the GET THE F**K out of the contest button. Why don't you find Arowanna to be the judge and then search another one that actually skin in recent day.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Going from being rude to others & claiming they cheat to threatening to quit in order to get what you want, Shido?
This contest keeps getting wilder and wilder.

 

[Shido]

Going from being rude to others & claiming they cheat to quitting, Shido?
This contest keeps getting wilder and wilder.

Yeah, this poll thread have to drag me through 5 cycles of greef and honestly I already tried to reason and also lighten up.

No, I am not going to accuse anyone cheating because they didn't ask it in the first place and so do I. Just batcrap executions and decisions from good ol Director and I can only toss in suggestions in middle of fire. I already accept the loss by nature but I will still respect people who vote for me. Damn, I just pissed at what the f they were thinking from him.

In my mind, I don't want to criticize Archie all the time. There will be at some point I became fallen but right now I'm giving chances for him to save this contest whenever I can.

 

[Archian]

Sh.... let the word sink down for a minute.

You know sir, I have twice experience as a loser in contests already so when I got 3rd place in a merch contest, it is worth popping those coke and celebrate an achievement because i'm being a dark horse.

Before all this drama, before this contest, before the man dug it back up. There was the shovel itself, there was me, @Shido

I dug it back up because look at how it left in Contest Discussion for 2 freaking years. What happen in the middle of 2 years you may asked? Skin Section was hard carried by me the whole year gap, i'm not the only one driving in section all the time but it's literally i was fulfilled to do that because i still have passion. I still prefer SD environment hence I still skin to this day.

In that same 2 years gap, there wouldn't be any ~Nightmare or A.R or even Doc bother to look at it. Because no one wake them up, you left with a desert that now just a sand castle for what i was cooking.

My life ask to be simplistic with how much I value what is surrounding me. So why the actual f are we fighting here? The point of texturing contest is best texture for sure but also your only way to get this section revive. Even I have to take health toll because of it, it's pathetic for us because we all want to win right? I think the real flaw was the award system itself, if you just 4th place below then you are nothing but a product of time and people will just move on with our lives. Those hanging award is starting to be a nothingburger, even the first place of modding contest throw it out of dumpster. Hell look at deepstrasz himself, how many bronzes that you have hide away?

It's ugly decision that shape us in modern day and I should have done more. I should have never been denied by Archian for being a judge, you can't keep on with old one because they will retire eventually. We should have train them to shape their standard so we can have successor for our roles. I dare to be one because I have lived long enough not to bother winning anyway. You can never an award but you can always get respects as being the main core of a contest.

That's depressing to look at, do I expect something in return. I sleep in cold ground waiting that I get the recognition i always want, filled with envies and shattered dreams. All of this, I could have done more and I was trying to voice a reason for them. From newcomers to old rusty peoples, you know I have been trying to satisfy both side even you know one of them is wrong.

Now with how the poll won't satisfy anyone, the only option you left IMO is forcing every voters explain why they vote them. This way we will know which one is being geniune, this decision will also come with a vote reset as well.

I can sense the frustration and disappointment in your message, and it seems like you've been through a lot in the contests you've participated in. It's understandable that you would want to celebrate your achievement of securing third place in the recent merch contest, especially considering your previous experiences as a "loser" in contests. Unexpectedly succeeding can indeed be a cause for celebration. I'm glad you had that experience.

I gather that you've invested a significant amount of time and effort into the contests, particularly in the skin section, where you've been actively involved for the past two years. It appears that you feel your contributions have been overlooked or undervalued, and you've taken it upon yourself to bring attention to the neglected section.

You express frustration with the lack of involvement from others, and feel that the Texturing section of contests has become a deserted place, despite your efforts to keep it alive. It's evident that you're passionate about skinning and have continued to engage in it because of your genuine love for the SD environment.

To be clear, you did have a part to play in bringing back texturing contests And I'm thankful that you did. We saw the return of @~Nightmare @A.R. and @Vinz to mention some - because of you.

Your mention of the award system and its flaws suggests that you believe it is no longer a meaningful measure of success. You argue that even the first-place winner of the Classic Modeling Contest discarded their award, and you question the value of the awards.

I appreciate your insight regarding the first-place winner of the Classic Modeling Contest and his decision to delete all his assets. This action could be interpreted as a way for him to assert control over something when other areas of his life may have been challenging. Indeed, personal circumstances can greatly impact a person's actions and decisions, and it's important to consider the broader context when evaluating someone's behavior.
While I don't have all the details, it's possible that the first-place winner was going through difficult times or facing personal challenges that led him to delete his assets. It's a poignant reminder that individuals cope with their circumstances in different ways, and their actions may reflect their need for control or a fresh start. Notice, I've left his name out on purpose.

It seems that you feel underappreciated and believe that you should have been given more opportunities, such as being a judge, in order to shape the contest and its standards. You express a desire for successors to carry on the tradition and suggest that the old judges should have been trained to pass on their knowledge and expertise. I've actually reached out to some to ask them to share their work-flow and to teach new beginners to texturing how it's done.
We would like our YouTube channel to be more educating. Perhaps you would be interested? @Shido

Your message carries a sense of desolation and disappointment, and you mention sleeping in a cold ground, waiting for the recognition you long for. You seem to be expressing a desire for respect rather than mere awards and highlight the importance of being recognized as a core contributor to the contest.

It's clear that you've invested a great deal of yourself into the contests and that you long for acknowledgment and validation. While I can understand your frustrations, it's important to remember that contests can be subjective, and not everyone will share the same views or preferences.
I appreciate the way you try to find constructive ways to address your concerns and communicate your ideas for improvement to us.

Keep pursuing your passions and expressing yourself through your work. Remember that success can be measured in various ways, and the recognition you seek may come in unexpected forms. Stay resilient and continue to share your talents with the world.

For the record, I have been watching your progression over the years. And I am impressed by how much you've improved and learned. It's clear to see that in your entry for this contest. Keep it up!

EDITED

 

[Shido]

@Archian Sir, this is wendy's

Okay first off, thank you for taking your time to respond my reply here. Although it's 2 am by the time I get to see here.

It's called insecurity. And I don't have to force everyone to agree here. Also you leave out a certain part, maybe I didn't clearly explain here but I make in the point right now. I have to craft my skill long enough to actually have a gut to get this contest back running. If I didn't dug it back, you wouldn't be here now.

I have reason to be vocal out that this contest should have been discussed way further but you decide to let the train run anyway.

Because I play a part of reviving it, I feel like I have some responsibilities in here too even I end up being the contestants.

If I can craft my skill for years then you can crafts contests to near perfection. All tries get like experiences to learn to remind to be ready for every scenarios.

 

[deepstrasz]

So may I suggest a star-based voting system? Each voter will have to give a star rating to all entries from 1-5 stars, and if the voter is a known troll or a fresh account, they won't be able to vote.

IMO that won't fix much. I gave 5 stars to each texture on their resource threads (if I didn't miss any) but could only vote for 3. I would have definitely voted for all. Actually, I even tried but the limit, you know.
So, if I were to vote by giving ratings to the textures, I'd be like giving a vote for each resource


Also, guys, would you please keep posts a bit smaller tad shorter. Feels like I'm reading ChatGPT material at times.

 

[Archian]

We managed to rename the Owl Warrior poll choice to REMOVED.

Xenforo didn’t allow poll choices to be adjusted. So Ralle did some tweaking.

Regardless, 11 people still need to change their votes.

 

[Murlocologist]

Sure, then I can only recommend you write your own reviews of all the entries based on your objective criteria and post it here and people will either agree or disagree with your assessments. And they might take your objective rationales into account when they cast their votes.

I’m not interested in bringing anyone down by giving numerical score to their entries, but I don’t mind giving some balance and objective feedback that should be more useful than repeatedly writing ‘’wow everyone did a fantastic job’’.

Footman
The good.
1. Overall layout is good, I like that the composition is solid.
2. Strong contrast, good for in-game environment.
3. Color scheme simple, but balanced. However, point no. 2 in the not so good section addresses something about this.

The not so good.
1. The idea to turn it into footman isn’t the most creative concept-wise as you have a blueprint to follow in a shape of a reference.
2. Blue is not a way to go on shoulders and knees, there is no TC there, so when you apply red team color concept no longer works.
3. Shading is a bit simplistic, not too consistent and could be better on metal material and cape.

PrinceYaser
The good.
1. Overall concept is alright, texture does convey the general idea to a certain degree
2. Shoulderpads are well drawn. Hands and feet are also good, although could be less sharp. I like the way loincloth is done, clear, contrasted and defined.
3. Has bright highlights which are necessary for in-game environment.

The not so good.
1. Cape is simply too blurry.
2. Color palette lacks contrast, everything except TC kind of blends into one, especially with in-game camera.
3. Some parts aren’t defined as much as they should be, not easy to read. Focal points definitely need more adjusting, face doesn’t draw enough attention.


Shido
The good.
1. Interesting concept, solid overall layout.
2. Design choices in terms of shapes of details on tusks, weapon are well drawn, the balance is done well there.
3. It has strongly defined parts, divided into two color categories.

The not so good.
1. This pale yellow hue choice isn’t the most flattering when you want to emphasize on the sun, fire parts, because this blue dominates them and is more vibrant, which should be vice versa.
2. Overall more shading to define focal points would be good option.
3. Some details on the mask are made with thin lines, these are somewhat too sharp and flat, the issue is also they blend when you view from distance.


A.R.
The good.
1. Unwrap is well drawn.
2. Concept is simple, but clean, easily readable.
3. Color palette is good, however could use more saturation having wc3 environment in mind.

The not so good.
1. Texture when applied on model appears a bit unfinished and rushed, somewhat blurry as you chose to work on 256x256.
2. The TC color tone on shoulder pads doesn’t mach TC tone elsewhere. Color overall is a bit too desaturated, especially for wc3 environment.
3. In-game it lacks stronger bright tones and highlights.


Vinz
The good.
1. Color scheme is quite good, design is clean and readable
2. TC is well incorporated, wheels are best drawn part and are the drivers of the texture
3. General idea is conveyed quite good.

The not so good.
1. Wolf head bit too simple in terms of shading and details. It’s the main focal point, it’s got to be the best illustrated part.
2. A bit too sharp in places where it shouldn’t be, I’d even reduce the shininess, details and contrast of some less important parts where you don’t want to draw the viewer.
3. Blue metal may be too saturated, also it has somewhat simplified highlights in the center part, gradients could be utilized more.


Nightmare
The good.
1. Colors are well balanced. Lizard especially has good gradients of green and color combination work well.
2. Nice design on the bow.
3. Composition is simple, but like the colors, balanced and conveys the idea solidly.

The not so good.
1. The wrap and direction of the gold parts on the dress is something I find problematic. Also the purple part of the dress covers the dark blue part, so there should be shading added where they meet to illustrate this more clearly.
2. In-game needs more bright highlights.
3. Some sharp and flat cartoony features don’t necessarily enhance the whole thing.

 

[Shido]

Good lord Doc, you have taken quite a time to review it.

Looking at them, I think we have to agree it's mostly artstyle choice can provide you different kinds of pros and cons that would eventually have to point out but we can improve and out-do our weakness overtime.

Also I agree that first cons in footman skin, There are gotta be quadrillion footmen already. Awaiting Footman16000000000000.

Edit: I would like to comment why the yellow is pale in genesaur.

Spoiler: +Saturation Sunweaver

It would be too much like fire which on its arm already did that. Also sun doesn't have to be fire, it could be just sunlight would justify the yellow pale direction. The blue dominate may not be too dominating as it was already desaturated to steer your attention away from the skin to the head which i think most of you that look on my reply didn't have hard time looking ait it. Also fist bump!

Our eyes like to catch details with bright stuff better than dark stuff hence I should not overwhelm you with yellow.

 

[PROXY]

I can judge as well, if you have me. Let's tag team this @frostwhisper .

 

[aeman]

goddamnit i missed an event

 

[Ardenaso]

dear lord

 

[Archian]

@PROXY and @frostwhisper are you guys still interested in judging?

 

[PROXY]

@PROXY and @frostwhisper are you guys still interested in judging?

Work, work

 

[Archian]

Added @PROXY and @frostwhisper as judges

 

[PrinceYaser]

Added @PROXY and @frostwhisper as judges

How's the percentage for judges and votes? Is it 60-40%?

 

[Footman16]

I will only accept the results of the judges if my position either stays the same or improves

 

[Shido]

I will only accept the results of the judges if my position either stays the same or improves

Spoiler: Not guaranteed. Even Yasey get 2nd place last time with 10 votes away from 3rd.

Outside that, i don't see a problem for 60-40 so it's fine.

 

[Footman16]

I know I'm just joking

 

[Archian]

How's the percentage for judges and votes? Is it 60-40%?

We've talked about it, and it's going to be 60-40.

 

[Shido]

We have come to the end for the voting and I will also vote for the top 3. Perhaps my opinions are irrelevant but it's all I can say about:

@A.R. 's Shadow Council Assassin:
Undoubtly got the last entry seat within seconds always from deadline. You sir, comeback from the dead, manage to sneak up a little history to hang with us.

Turning Garona into a Shadow assassin is decent but it is suffer from theme improvement over the original. It's uncommon for the texture artist transforming unit into a different role that was originate from for sure but I can't land a mark with it. You have time disadvantage so I don't want to be too harsh on it, we (pointing at viewer) know this is a rush work and still manage to stand off but I wouldn't use it over original texture if i don't consider theme.

No, we should not bald shaming here and this is up to everyone taste when looking at it. I like the armor works he made within limited time and the face is decent to look at, love the muscle texture for that much skin showing. Bonus point for original size texture here, probably the riskest confidence you can have.

@Vinz 's Blitzworgen:
Probably the first skin under strong hand and strong mind of good ol Mythic/Vinny. Maybe I have put a lot of influences on you so you join with confidences. You know what, it's freaking woof.

The cleanest texture of all contestants, the shinest tank that even General Frank would sit on it. I like he goes hound on wolf theme that originally just decoration in the original model and turn them into Gilneas's Proudest Battle Tank. Perhap Genn Graymane will pay you a visit if he didn't know there is a dwarf running this tank. The color choice is also decent but i wish you explain that more in description.

My problem with blizworgen is simply look too safe. Like the tank look too fresh, It make me look like it was there for decoration rather than combat. Unless your theme is Luxury (they are not stain free btw), it's too clean for a tank, trust me Gilneas is not really the cleanest city to be there. Also with previous issue prior the poll is that you violated the rule of no texture above 512 in any dimension so possible false advertising in your thumbnail and maybe in your video. I mean it's not in the rule about thumbnails but it's minor prevention since it's still look great on 512.

@~Nightmare 's K'Nawa:
The first texture since his missing for 2 years gaps, Texture Wars Part 3: Revenge Of The ~Nightmare.

True to the ~Nightmare style, he is well known for transforming unit way more than my capablity (pzt I still technically can beat his battle tho). This time, it's turning a goat demon unto a sharpshot mythical lizard (dragon?). That my friend, a strong theme away from the original model which he managed to pull off. Lizards are not uncommon in Hiveworkshop, thank to Gluma's influence. The scale texture is gucci, it's marvellous work from him and obviously may have overkill us in this competition, perhap he was right about should have been the judge lol. The shoulder cap while is heavily carried by the model is well-executed and pleasing to look at.

The problem I look at the texture is simply too dark to look at. Maybe due to my perspective since i don't put brightness on my laptop screen when i writing my own review on this but it's not enough highlight for the skin. That might be the tone he is going for and i can respect his decision and given how lizard skin work.

Ok, to make it clear, I was refering to K'Nawa as lizard because i can't buy the theme that it is a dragon. Maybe due to being a bipedal, it may more convince to you that this is a lizard than a dragon. You know what, let's just move on.

@PrinceYaser 's Judge of Deeds:
Our 2nd place last contest has returned and he is wilded with his creation.

I give him bonus point for being neutral with your texture as turning a demon into.... a goat demon with fancier clothing make me remind of cooler Daniel meme. The face is probably the most badass face execution I have ever seen, although by the time I write this review, I have like Tongueless Archer made (yeah, shameless plug) so I still shock by how different the original is. The sexy shoulder cap, the torso work, Yasey my boy, you are the otherside of the coin to beat the giants that leading off.

Or is it? Because original texture is still beating you here. Remember my quote of don't ever skin Deathwing model, that is warning i was foreshadowing from the start. If you can't beat the original texture, the skin will fail short. The shoulder cap are too similar to the original and its armor is too much better. Director's Cut for a reason hence anyone seeing this and the oriignal did know why it is fall short.

@Footman16 's Footman Warrior:
This is like Me skinning a racoon into a cat, a Cat skining a cat. In this case, a footman skinning a footman or a gladiator in this case.

The idea is decent, although most of the work is heavily the model itself. I love the effort you have put in to make everyone convince this is a Footman. I will give you that, the armor does look nice and noticable aging material make it look more convincing. I also like the face but I think you should shadow instead, this is not Pantheon from league where you use face for sex appeal. Attempt to look like Reforged version of Footman is your things and I will respect that, I would use this if I don't like midget size footman.

Just like Judge Of Deed, the original is too good with it. Although it's unfair to compare the theme here since this is full transformation texture for a different role. I just wish you can do more than just: "This is a Footman, bomb away." That's probably the weakest part about the Footman Warrior is that the theme was weak as we have seen many footmen. Maybe you are a fan of footman hence you still like it, of course I still like footmen but I see this all the time with another case being a knight in shiny armor scenario. I don't mean to ask Betsy give it another twist on footmen but it's just look weak, and that is the last thing a footman want to be look at.

Am I too harsh with my standard? Perhaps, like I said, my opinion is irrelevant and I will standby most of my point. I'm no skin god and I have quite of flaws in my own work too. The poll is over now and I have put my vote into it.

Hope you have a decent day and if you wanna discuss more then go ahead.

 

[Moy]

Well, I accidentally exported the cmyk version and think that's the reason it looks a bit dark haha. Will update it once the contest ends.

 

[Archian]

Alright, the poll is over. Thank you all for participating! The results will be announced once the judges have finished voting.

@PROXY and @frostwhisper

 

[PrinceYaser]

Our 2nd place last contest has returned and he is wilded with his creation.

I give him bonus point for being neutral with your texture as turning a demon into.... a goat demon with fancier clothing make me remind of cooler Daniel meme. The face is probably the most badass face execution I have ever seen, although by the time I write this review, I have like Tongueless Archer made (yeah, shameless plug) so I still shock by how different the original is. The sexy shoulder cap, the torso work, Yasey my boy, you are the otherside of the coin to beat the giants that leading off.

Or is it? Because original texture is still beating you here. Remember my quote of don't ever skin Deathwing model, that is warning i was foreshadowing from the start. If you can't beat the original texture, the skin will fail short. The shoulder cap are too similar to the original and its armor is too much better. Director's Cut for a reason hence anyone seeing this and the oriignal did know why it is fall short.

I don't like easy opponents. :]
The masterpiece "Lord of Darkness" was a pleasure to rekskin, and difficult at the same time.

 

[Rui]

Sorry, but the scoreline is not realistic or objective with clear bias, additionally fueled thanks to the public display of votes. The criteria was supposed to be shading, concept and details.

I wrongly evaluated the capability of the average voter to deliver proper score.

You probably did. The average user knows nothing about modeling or texturing. They will elect entries on perceived value for their ongoing or envisioned projects. Or based on aesthetics. What exactly was your expectation?

I agree with @Archian: you could've stayed, and withdrawed from future contests if you feel the outcome is unfair.

A double-blind review process as @~Nightmare proposed is the method used in scientific venues, and it's the closest to non-biased one can get. Seems like an extravagant option since we're talking about a Warcraft III contest; you're supposed to be participating for fun, mostly.

Spoiler: Also this:

Firstly, removing the ability for authors to share work-in-progress screenshots using their names could hinder the overall experience of the contest.
The contest would become less interesting to follow and less engaging for the community if artists were unable to share their creative process. Sharing progress updates not only allows artists to showcase their creative process but also generates excitement and engagement within the community. By removing this aspect, the contest might lose some of its vibrancy and interaction. Not to mention that artists wouldn't have the opportunity to receive feedback, share ideas, or engage in discussions about their passion with fellow contestants in the contest thread.

 

[Murlocologist]

You probably did. The average user knows nothing about modeling or texturing. They will elect entries on perceived value for their ongoing or envisioned projects. Or based on aesthetics. What exactly was your expectation?

I agree with @Archian: you could've stayed, and withdrawed from future contests if you feel the outcome is unfair.

A double-blind review process as @~Nightmare proposed is the method used in scientific venues, and it's the closest to non-biased one can get. Seems like an extravagant option since we're talking about a Warcraft III contest; you're supposed to be participating for fun, mostly.

As if you suggest there are not supposed to be standards to this game just because it’s wc3 or for fun. Scale doesn’t matter, integrity does.

My expectation was what is the promise of this contest, a skill competition that’s merit driven when it comes to reviewing and rewarding entries using contest judging criteria that is literally titled as ‘contest judging’ in the opening post. I don’t care how you get there, but I expect you to, or otherwise retitle this into popularity contest. I also don’t care what reasons someone has for voting, if their voting logic or motivation differs from description or is misguided than the system doesn’t work and ‘the promise’ of meritocracy is broken if you rely on them to deliver it. The ‘polar opposite’ in form of contest judges had also often not been effective system.

Also, I think judges will only be decorative in this contest, meaning they’ll just confirm the poll results in regards to who wins medals. Future contests need better structure, no more wild west polls to start with.

 

[Ardenaso]

huh that's weird I never even looked at the polls before I judged the stuff I had to judge

 

[ColourWolfe]

Also, I think judges will only be decorative in this contest, meaning they’ll just confirm the poll results in regards to who wins medals.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
Judges vote probably will align close to poll. Because being underappreciated by a non-knowing mind is one, while just being outshined by somebody else is another.

 

[PROXY]

You probably did. The average user knows nothing about modeling or texturing. They will elect entries on perceived value for their ongoing or envisioned projects. Or based on aesthetics. What exactly was your expectation?

I agree with @Archian: you could've stayed, and withdrawed from future contests if you feel the outcome is unfair.

A double-blind review process as @~Nightmare proposed is the method used in scientific venues, and it's the closest to non-biased one can get. Seems like an extravagant option since we're talking about a Warcraft III contest; you're supposed to be participating for fun, mostly.

As if you suggest there are not supposed to be standards to this game just because it’s wc3 or for fun. Scale doesn’t matter, integrity does.

My expectation was what is the promise of this contest, a skill competition that’s merit driven when it comes to reviewing and rewarding entries using contest judging criteria that is literally titled as ‘contest judging’ in the opening post. I don’t care how you get there, but I expect you to, or otherwise retitle this into popularity contest. I also don’t care what reasons someone has for voting, if their voting logic or motivation differs from description or is misguided than the system doesn’t work and ‘the promise’ of meritocracy is broken if you rely on them to deliver it. The ‘polar opposite’ in form of contest judges had also often not been effective system.

Also, I think judges will only be decorative in this contest, meaning they’ll just confirm the poll results in regards to who wins medals. Future contests need better structure, no more wild west polls to start with.

Ugh, at this point I'm becoming frustrated, really.

These contests have always been first and foremost to get the community to be engaged in one way or another. The mixture of judging and voting to get the results sure has its ups and downs, but always worked pretty well to achieve the first and foremost desired result: community engagement from both artists and viewers.

The only reason why judging was removed, is because people were creating (absolutely unnecessary) drama in the first place about unfair judging. This together with the fact that finding judges was getting harder and harder and prolonged the time it took to complete a contest.

However, this was made ABSOLUTELY clear before the contest even started and was clearly mentioned everywhere. Every bit of your critisicm could have been nullified had you bothered to read the contest description.

 

[Murlocologist]

Ugh, at this point I'm becoming frustrated, really.

These contests have always been first and foremost to get the community to be engaged in one way or another. The mixture of judging and voting to get the results sure has its ups and downs, but always worked pretty well to achieve the first and foremost desired result: community engagement from both artists and viewers.

The only reason why judging was removed, is because people were creating (absolutely unnecessary) drama in the first place about unfair judging. This together with the fact that finding judges was getting harder and harder and prolonged the time it took to complete a contest.

However, this was made ABSOLUTELY clear before the contest even started and was clearly mentioned everywhere. Every bit of your critisicm could have been nullified had you bothered to read the contest description.

So, you don’t disagree with what I’m saying but you disagree with my audacity to say it how it is?Because instead of trying to argue the specific issues I pointed out you rather chose to play to the gallery and try to invalidate my right to point them out because oh how I even dare to question.

The evaluation and premise that poll will be able to bring at least C - quality of score was due to the fact that most of the times it got it somewhat right without too major upsets. At the time I exited the contest my entry was among bottom two entries. Sorry, but the system failed unexpectedly, such result is misguided and unrealistic, biased. I advocated for poll to determine the winner, but not a poll which is visible during polling, did it play a part in failure, probably it did. Poll showed that it is too unreliable to be used as a way of delivering proper score.